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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:43 pm 
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National data: Psychiatric drugs behind 75 percent of all female suicides

Stockholm, Sweden 2/06/2008 10:19 PM GMT (TransWorldNews)

Newly uncovered data show that psychiatric drugs were behind 75 percent of ALL suicides among women (18-84) in Sweden (2006); antidepressants were behind 52 percent.

The unique information is coming from the National Board of Health and Welfare. It can be the first time that data on a national level about ALL the psychiatric drug treatment preceding suicides, have been revealed.

Among a total number of 377 women who committed suicide in 2006, 281 (75%) had filled a prescription for psychiatric drugs within 180 days before their death.

The women were seeking help – and they got psychiatric drugs, said by psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies to prevent suicides and cure depression.

There was no “lack of treatment” for the 377 women who committed suicide: Almost one fifth (18%) got at least three psychiatric drugs (antidepressants, neuroleptics, hypnotics/sedatives); 41% got at least two.

The data revealed add to the just released directive from European Medicines Agency, to include warnings about increased risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviour for ALL antidepressants, not only for children and adolescents, but also for young adults (see the British MHRA, Implementation of warnings on suicidal thoughts and behaviour in antidepressants, 4 February).

For years pharmaceutical companies have used a "blackmail strategy" to get doctors and sad patients to believe that they MUST use the drugs – or else. Leading psychiatrists with financial interests in increased sales have been writing endlessly in medical journals about the “protective effect” of antidepressants against suicide. Shamelessly false statements that the psychiatric drugs correct a chemical imbalance (such as a lack of serotonin) in the brain are still part of the official drug labels.

But the new data from Sweden tell the real story: Psychiatric drug treatment was part of 75 percent of ALL cases of suicide among women (18-84) for the year 2006; they obviously did NOT correct any form of “chemical imbalance” in the brain for these women.

The conclusion from the now revealed data could only be one: At best psychiatric drugs, including antidepressants, do not prevent suicides and, at worst directly cause them.

See also earlier article, Antidepressants behind 52 percent of all suicides among women, http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory ... 878&cat=10


Janne Larsson

reporter – investigating psychiatry

Sweden

janne.olov.larsson@telia.com

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:00 am 
Denis,
Spontaneously "early" in the morning: what does this say? The women are reacting even though they are getting medicine, because yo can't repress things above a certain degree? And do they use the medicine to commit suicide too (I have swiftly skimmed the text)? We should listen to something else? Or the professionals should do that? And what is chemical imbalance in the brain about? And that about the pharmaceutical industry again...

Today it stands in the newspaper that more children are seeking help at BRIS. http://www.bris.se/?pageID=61 It looks as more and more children feel pressed and stressed and suicide-thoughts are increasing.The really despaired emails to BRIS are more, especially among girls!? Of course children are more prone to write?? But we should take this seriously nevertheless!!?? And have you read, Dennis, this about "anomi" http://reflektionerochspeglingar.blogsp ... andnd.html

And, with a deep, deep sigh, I just heard on the news about our foreign minister Carl Bildt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Bildt and minister of justice Beatrice Ask http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Ask had written an article in Dagens Nyheter about that we need to take terrorist-problems seriously... http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=572&a=740817 My spontaneous reaction: what is this about? Their paranoiac tendencies?? Trying to whip up something in people; against a (common) enemy? But that was a side-track?

A leader-writer writes that we have been speaking loudly and a lot about the climate for companies, but he thinks we should start to talk about the child-climate much more seriously... He thinks that discussion is more important than anything else. http://www.dalademokraten.se/Opinion--K ... KALL-BRIS/

Karin (the cold is better?? Am going to take the bike to work; two schools today!!!)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Karin, you bring in a lot of different topics as well. For a while there was suspicion that anti-depressives heightened the feeling of suicide in people. This has been confirmed in many research since. I've had a discussion with someone who didn't believe this. She said to me that these people already are desperate and then they find out that the anti-depressives don't work, and decide to commit suicide. As if they had their last straw pulled away from them. This could be a factor but fact remains that anti-depressives do more harm then good. The pharmaceutical industry drums up the occasional propaganda spokes person who explains that those pills have saved her / his life. They invented the chemical imbalance theory so they can push their pills. But the brain is such a complex organ with such complex chemical interactions that there's no such thing as balance or imbalance. The feeling of destroying one's own life is connected to an early memory where this person has experienced a near fatal event, which has been suppressed with the help of the poisonous pedagogy. The strong feeling of re-creating this event is very strong. That also explains why many seek dangerous sports or hobbies to risk their lives unnecessary. I once read some research on people who had jumped off a bridge and survived it. They had said that the second they had jumped, they had regretted it. As if they only wanted to feel that near death experience.

I've read the newest data from BRIS as well and there's a definite increase among girls when it comes to suicidal thoughts, compared to the girls who contacted BRIS in the past (so it's the same target group). Why aren't there any Summerhill schools in Sweden, who prides itself on having such a child friendly system to grow in? Why don't people take matters in their own hand? Are Swedes suffering from trygghetsnarkomanin? Everything is taken care of in children, they don't have to do anything themselves. It's all planned and outlined. Totalitarianism the Swedish way. One big difference between Holland and Sweden is the lack of alternative choices and options in this country and the lack of critical voices.

These rigid and conservative people such as Carl Bildt want enemies. Now that the cold war is over and no wars in Europe to stick their noses in, they want terrorists. There's no terrorist threat and terrorists can never be prevented no matter how big your arsenal of oppressive weapons and technology is. What they do is making people scared because scared people are easier to control. That's the whole idea behind it.

I've read your blog on 'anomi'. It's a bit about pointing the finger at abstractions in society so no one has to feel responsible. When it comes to stress in our society, it's about keeping the strength that you have a choice, the least choice is NOT to do things if you don't want it. For example, I always said at work that I don't have a mobile phone, to prevent being always reachable. But it seems I was the only one because almost everyone owns one, and the youth feels that have to keep up with keeping 543 friends on their Messenger lists.

Dennis

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:49 pm 
Dennis,

Excuse me, but here comes a whole “essay” almost…

Quote:
Dennis wrote: They invented the chemical imbalance theory so they can push their pills. But the brain is such a complex organ with such complex chemical interactions that there's no such thing as balance or imbalance.


Karin: Yes, I have read somewhere hat they haven’t been able to prove that lack of serotonin as they claim there is!! That it is only a hypothesis??

Quote:
Dennis wrote: The feeling of destroying one's own life is connected to an early memory where this person has experienced a near fatal event, which has been suppressed with the help of the poisonous pedagogy.


Karin: Yes, I think you are right.

Quote:
Dennis wrote: The strong feeling of re-creating this event is very strong. That also explains why many seek dangerous sports or hobbies to risk their lives unnecessary. /…/ As if they only wanted to feel that near death experience.


Karin: Thank you for writing/saying this… I have a friend admiring his adventurous children, a one that is supposed to be enlightened…

Quote:
Dennis wrote: Why aren't there any Summerhill schools in Sweden, who prides itself on having such a child friendly system to grow in?


Karin: Yes, you have brought this up earlier… I have worked as kompanjonlärare (“companion-teacher) in music in grades 1-3 (klass 1-3) in 5-6 classes for ten years… Maybe in a very progressive school with a lot of new thinking –then at least. And seen the passion among those teachers. It is possible to achieve in the “regular” school, or it would be possible I think. I don’t think the free-schools have contributed to a better school, at least not so far! As one thought. On the contrary. One claimed that competition should make the school better.

As I moved five times during my first 18 years I have also gone in many schools in Sweden, but of course I was a child then… Three schools the first 3, 5 years, two the next 3, two on the fourth place we lived and two on the fifth. After that I was student at a folk-high-school (music) for 3, 5 and so one year at a Conservatory. After that followed studies to piano-pedagogue etc. And I grew up in school-milieu! At five different agricultural-schools; from Umeå in the north to Hörby in the south. My dad was teacher the first 6, 5 years of my life and headmaster for 25 years before he retired. Yes, my parents were Academics, or at least dad was.

2002-03 I was student at the Royal College of Music in Stockholm in a tutor-education.
I'm impregnated with this milieu!!?? And damaged by it?? Not especially creative or new-thinking? No, I don't think it is so... But why am I the one am? Because of the school? Or despite school? Would I have been a different person if I had gone in other sorts of schools?? Yes, maybe?? Maybe I had got many more opportunities to develop eventual talents I have?? For a year I danced ballet, but the we moved to a place where there was no dance-education... Maybe I had worked with something entirely different?

There are a lot of factors influencing particular schools; the environment they are lying in (working-class, or middle-class or upper classes or if it is a mix, if it is a school at the country-side or in a town. The size of the town etc. etc. etc.).

Yes, there were many boring schools, and bad teachers… I don’t know, would a Summerhill have been the solution?? It was the right for England and was and is for many young people (but hasn't there been criticism over phenomena there too?), and maybe it is the right thing for other countries too?? And maybe one could create something like this here, yes, of course. But what’s the underlying problem that makes such schools necessary?

And I don’t know, if I had had children… If I think of my siblings children… If I as parent had been capable of giving my child a solid ground to stand on… What would it then need? And what would make her/him vaccinated against abuse later better? Wherever it occurs? And what says that any school don’t have abusers? Is a Summerhill vaccinated against those?

But I don’t know, if it was the content in this school, the way they are working etc.??
Maybe I am so damaged so I don’t understand or sense this…? Or that I have become so damaged through my work (which can be possible!!??)… Or that I am so limited in another sense?? Or maybe that I was such a good girl myself, so I adapted to the almost worse conditions?? Which can be so!!?? That I am so blind…

Maybe we need different schools for different cultures and contexts?? (excuse me, but I am “a bit” tired hearing how bad schools and teachers in general are. Really fed up with it t be honest. And once again, wit this not said I am uncritical over state of affairs!).

Quote:
Dennis wrote: Why don't people take matters in their own hand? Are Swedes suffering from trygghetsnarkomanin?


Karin: see below about taking matters in ones own hands and the question about choices.
And that David Eberhard, do you really put him high???? What is he actually saying?? Isn’t he exactly as our dads were once?? “What weakling are you!!!???” with deep, deep contempt!

And quite frankly, is this easier for men to say??? And what bullshit!!! Even if I have claustrophobia and maybe a lot of other problems… My English isn’t sufficient enough to express what I think about this Eberhard! (you don’t see much good with us Swedes, Dennis?? We aren’t much to have?). I come back to this with security-nets later…

Quote:
Dennis wrote: Everything is taken care of in children, they don't have to do anything themselves. It's all planned and outlined.


Karin: I ca really agree with you there!!! Parents are driving their kids here and there to thousand activities!!! And children can’t play football without being trained, not play on their own!??? When I and my siblings grew up it wasn’t like this… We played and fantasised on our own a lot, and we did a lot (if “doing” is so important?). In a way we had more “freedom”?

But is it only like this in Sweden? That everything is planned and organized? And when it comes to ambitions from parents pat, aren’t there parents that are even more ambitious than we are here? I have colleagues from Eastern Europe (Poland, Romania) and have and have had pupils with parents who are from Russia, Japan, China and Eastern Asia… They seem be prone to drilling their children. But maybe this is something else??

And there are the opposite too: children cycling whatever weather to their instrumental-lessons for instance... With an instrument (or other things) on the bike. There are extremes in both directions (and maybe more directions)??

These ideas of Eberhard are they maybe about that people should need to be “hardened”?? They are too weak? Oh yes, maybe they are weak? And thin-skinned!??? Bu why?? Is it because they are spoiled and too much protected??

Oh yes, of course parents can be overprotecting!! And what’s behind that? What is this overprotection about? And others are too little protecting!??? (the ones resonating like Eberhard???). Yes, what does a child actually need?? And what is it given?

And, yes, it’s true that I can be very, very tired over some parents and just sigh… (this could become a long essay in itself!! So maybe I shall stop here with that!!??). And I am probably (and unfortunately) blind to things??

Quote:
Dennis wrote: Totalitarianism the Swedish way. One big difference between Holland and Sweden is the lack of alternative choices and options in this country and the lack of critical voices.


Karin: I haven’t seen other cultures in that way so I can’t say anything about this… But I can agree with the lack of critical voices. In all!!! But I don’t know, isn’t it a big problem all the choices young people have?? I don’t know… All the options they have… But I don’t want to go back to old times… That’s not what I try to say.

For instance with all their Messenger-contacts: Who shall I chat with now?

When I grew up there didn’t exist dance-education for children everywhere… But now children can dance both this and that both here and there in the country.

And is it the security-nets fault actually?? Or where does the fault lie?

And when it comes to schools: the last years teenagers are drowning in offers when they shall seek to the gymnasium… So 10 years ago here was really not many options!!! The it was really bad!!?? Or what doe children actually need??? Yes, is it maybe that it is about?? What do children actually need? And what are grown up needs actually? And what does childhood needs cause and create in the society actually?? Maybe a lot more than we are aware of??

And, once again, what does a child need actually??? What options and alternatives do it/we need? Or do we need something else?? Something entirely different? And what do we grown ups actually know about this?? Are we mirroring our own needs in our children - or in other people's children?? Yes, maybe there are adults with more access to their own history who knows, feels, senses this better than others? But who raise heir voices?? The ones knowing better or even best?? Or the ones knowing less? How is it said in English: the more you know the more you realize you don't know? The ones knowing most, being most mature, don't have to drum what they know into others or steer others?? They are (or can be??) better listeners?

Quote:
Dennis wrote: These rigid and conservative people such as Carl Bildt want enemies. Now that the cold war is over and no wars in Europe to stick their noses in, they want terrorists. There's no terrorist threat and terrorists can never be prevented no matter how big your arsenal of oppressive weapons and technology is. What they do is making people scared because scared people are easier to control. That's the whole idea behind it.


Karin: Thank you for saying this!!! Yes, is it some sort of shock-therapy (Melanie Klein)??? Even if it isn’t really conscious? Maybe entirely unconscious?? But the effects are bad whatever it is!

I don’t like that arrogant over-class snob at all!! There you can talk about contempt (for weakness)!

And now it is comme-il-faut to write such things, go out with suck articles in Sweden!! One doesn’t have to be ashamed for expressing such ideas at all!! Noone, or few, are lifting their eye-brows over this?? How are people raised I wonder?? It is comme-il-faut to express really (neo)conservative ideals everywhere in media and politics…

I react a lot against the Christ-democrats moralistic politics, and at the school-politics! Strongly and emotionally!! So to the degree I can’t stand seeing those politicians… ( sigh). Moralistic and full of contradictions (maybe as their, and mine, or our, parents once behaved and resonated?).

Even if I grew up in a nuclear family with no divorces among any relatives, and I am not lesbian or anything like that… And very secularised when it comes to church, even if I can visit ceremonies… Have no problems with that.

Quote:
Dennis wrote: I've read your blog on 'anomi'. It's a bit about pointing the finger at abstractions in society so no one has to feel responsible. When it comes to stress in our society, it's about keeping the strength that you have a choice, the least choice is NOT to do things if you don't want it.


Karin: Those who have that strength are to congratulate! And in our society it is the women who are suffering the most from stress-diseases and exhaustion… Don’t these creatures see that they have choices!!!??? Come on, can’t they show their strength?? Oh, stand up here now and say no!!!

And why aren’t they capable of saying no?? Neither here nor there! Not at work, and not at home etc. So they get less stressed! Why don’t they make their husbands and children do things at home? Etc. Why must women at work-paces take everything on them?? Why are they taking so much responsibility??? Do they have to? Noone forces them! (???)

But, yes, we walk as the cat around hot porridge (as we say). We don’t go straight to the point!!?? What’s beneath this?? Not many (if hardly any?) want to know, about lakc of capacity to say no!??

And why can’t women say no? What have they experienced? Maybe early in life? Where they weren’t allowed to say no… For instance when it comes to improper touching?? But of course it doesn’t have to be that, can be about other things too, were the weren’t allowed to say no…

And I have thought about this with suicide-rates in Sweden. Either you act things in (at yourself, in self-destructive behavior, but also see suicide-attackers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack ; there the self-destruction also destructs others) or our (at others). You react out (at others) or in (at yourself). Or both?

Sweden hasn’t been an especially violent society!? Are we in general acting in?? USA is a mote violent society (at least with all weapons circling and shootings in schools etc.), people there are acting out more?? But the suicide-rates were quite high there too?

What is to prefer? If any??

That people react in or out?? Ad what is properly protecting oneself?

Quote:
Dennis wrote: I always said at work that I don't have a mobile phone, to prevent being always reachable. But it seems I was the only one because almost everyone owns one, and the youth feels that have to keep up with keeping 543 friends on their Messenger lists.


Karin: what a coincidence, I actually thought about this with Mobil phones the other day! How it was for, say 15 years ago… That people needed to be reachable and in access with other people all the time! Yes, we called these phones bruins or “nallar” in Swedish (teddybears) then! But now noone questions them…

I am one of the responsible for a group with teens in a course where the students get longer lessons and don’t only have one instrument. And this fall it showed that one of them didn’t have a mobile phone!! Or at least we didn’t get his number. And of course that’s ok. But I felt: oh, how good!!! All don’t go in “leading-strings”?? And do as one “shall” or “ought” to do, what one shall have etc.!?

And yes, it looks as people are competing about how many friends they have!! Even grown ups at Facebook for instance.

But I don’t think it is so easy like that with choices… Of course we have choices!! Of course we can choose not to have a mobile phone or this and that! We can choose friends etc. actually, skipping people too. At least grown ups should have that capacity! And we probably have more choices than we are aware of, but probably don’t see all.

Strikes me: the Norwegian physician Anna Luise Kirkengen has written about a man who rediscovered his ability to see colors during painting-lessons. Do you know what, he suddenly remembered how he had been standing in the shower and in the water on the floor he saw blood suddenly. He had been raped anally and it was from there the blood came. And he had noone (as he trusted) to go to with his worries. Maybe that boy didn’t understand from where the blood actually came or if it was dangerous. So after this event he saw things in black and white, but wasn’t aware of it.

But now he had the luck to encounter a person that showed she/he was open to hear his story.

And maybe he wasn’t harmed in a lot of other ways, so the truth was easier to bring to surface?
How many don’t have that luck? And are burdened with much more maybe, so the truth is more buried for them? That apropos distorted capacity to see.

And Kirkengen also writes about a woman that became deaf! They even tested her hearing, and no, she didn’t hear. But when she moved from home to study I think (if I remember right) she started to hear!! She was tested again and no, there were no problems with her ears. She had been sexually abused and had to block her ears not hearing the abuser puffing (???).So it looks as if the senses can trick one!! Even if there is no fault on neither eyes nor ears!? And I also wonder if intellect can block things too!!?? As I have written earlier.

And that about choices we actually have: we stay in relations (both friend- and love-, and work-place) that are bad and maybe even destructive. And don’t see other alternatives even if they are right in front of us?? Maybe even alternatives that are much, much better than the ones we have. But those who see those alternatives and don’t are so blind or very little blind are of course to congratulate. And the reason why they can is probably that they have less in their backpacks or have processed things during their lives, got those opportunities!?

But it is probably so too, that all people aren’t interested to know any truths!??

But I think one shall be careful with moralizing over people who are struggling… Wanting to come to terms with their problems, to work on them… Even if they haven’t had so great successes yet… Moralizing over that they aren’t capable of cutting off with people that are destructive for them, not capable of this or that. For whose sake are they going to do this? For mine? I want to stress that this isn’t easy, or maybe very difficult. But of course one can react if and when one sees something…

Far beyond the original topic?? About psychiatric drugs...
Karin


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Dennis,

Thank you for the TransWorldNews link. I just sent it to a depressed female friend who dispenses medication as a nurse in a psychiatric hospital.

Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Karin wrote:
Yes, I have read somewhere hat they haven’t been able to prove that lack of serotonin as they claim there is!! That it is only a hypothesis??


Yes, there's not a shred of scientific evidence for their statements. But even if they can measure in the brain that there's a shortage of serotonin, you can't just add some to restore the balance. If there's a shortage, it's because for a reason and change one thing, and there are consequences. Someone's behavior isn't connected to just one substance, but a complex system of chemicals, if you look at humans as just chemical formulas. It's like sending in a bulldozer in a porcelain shop to turn a small cup around.

Karin wrote:
I have a friend admiring his adventurous children, a one that is supposed to be enlightened…


If adventure is connected to curiosity, it's okay. But when it's connected to dangerous sports such as motor sport or mountain climbing or bungee jumping a parachute jumping. etc. then it's like playing with fire.

The Summerhil School is not a free school in the traditional sense of the word. Traditional Free Schools were called because they were free from religion. I have a Catholic background and I went to a Catholic school. In the village I grew up in, those with protestant parents went to the protestant school. Then we had a very small school called The Free School, for those parents who didn't want religion to be an influence. Of course these tradtional 'Free' schools are nothing what the Summerhill School represents. What makes this school unique is that the power lies with the children. They decide what and when they want to learn and have equal votes in all decisions in school. As far as I know, no bullying thrives there, even though they get the most troubled kids from the country, the ones that couldn't adapt in traditional schools. But in Sweden schooling is very much regulated by the government who never sees individuals but statistics. And because the (capitalist) economy is the most important, everything is structured to direct kids to the appropriate professions and make them competitive to the extreme. Kids who have graduated from Summerhill have been successful in every profession you can think of, except as politician. No one ever aspired a career as a politician.

Karin wrote:
David Eberhard, do you really put him high???? What is he actually saying?? Isn’t he exactly as our dads were once?? “What weakling are you!!!???” with deep, deep contempt!


I merely pointed out what trygghetsnarkomanin means. I have no regard for this person. But aren't parents really trying to re-live their childhood through their child? If they wanted to do something but couldn't, they make sure their kid can. Parents are afraid that their kid won't like them so they try to please it as much as they can. Especially with divorced parents. Isn't this a very subtle way of preventing your child to become critical towards parents and therefore authorities?

Karin wrote:
And quite frankly, is this easier for men to say??? And what bullshit!!! Even if I have claustrophobia and maybe a lot of other problems… My English isn’t sufficient enough to express what I think about this Eberhard! (you don’t see much good with us Swedes, Dennis?? We aren’t much to have?).


You lost me here. Just because I point out some critical notes, doesn't mean I don't see much good with Swedes. Why should I only focus on the good and not the bad? Do you see this similarity with a childhood where a child is not allowed to disagree? It's not about being weak, it's about being autonomous and becoming independent. I've had discussions where (enlightened) people were furious about the concept of becoming independent because it was out of fear of becoming dependent. But also here there are good and bad forms of independence and dependence.

Karin wrote:
And there are the opposite too: children cycling whatever weather to their instrumental-lessons for instance... With an instrument (or other things) on the bike. There are extremes in both directions (and maybe more directions)??


Yes, the other side of the extreme. I bet when they are older and have kids, they'll drive their kids everywhere. I think a good compromise would be: good weather: get your bicycle. Bad weather: someone brings you.

Karin wrote:
But I can agree with the lack of critical voices. In all!!! But I don’t know, isn’t it a big problem all the choices young people have??


I was talking about adults and the lack of alternatives. But kids do have a lot of choices but do they have the choice of not choosing? That's the only important choice everyone should have. In schools kids seem to be forced to wear certain type of clothes to fit in, and have their hair a certain way. If one refuses, you're being outed. They can choose between many different subjects in school, but can they choose not to go to school or change school?

As for adults, where are the alternative newspapers and magazines? Where are the alternative TV stations and cinemas? Where are the alternative housing options? They are very hard to find.

Karin wrote:
Yes, is it some sort of shock-therapy (Melanie Klein)??? Even if it isn’t really conscious? Maybe entirely unconscious?? But the effects are bad whatever it is!


You mean, Naomi Klein, right? The Shock Doctrine...

Karin wrote:
I react a lot against the Christ-democrats moralistic politics, and at the school-politics! Strongly and emotionally!! So to the degree I can’t stand seeing those politicians…


Good to hear you speak out about this. It's really important that Sweden gets more outspoken voices.

Karin wrote:
And I have thought about this with suicide-rates in Sweden. Either you act things in (at yourself, in self-destructive behavior, but also see suicide-attackers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack ; there the self-destruction also destructs others) or our (at others). You react out (at others) or in (at yourself). Or both?


Yes, suicide can present itself in different forms. Some of these people want to take as many people with them as they can before they end their own life. In the USA there's a phenomenon called Suicide by Cop Generally speaking, it's said that men tend to focus their destruction outside, while women direct it inwards.

And back to psychiatric drugs. It treats symptoms, if anything is being treated at all. We should never lose the focus of the cause, and the cause of the cause.

Dennis

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:35 am 
Dennis,

A brief reply (can I write shortly??). Many years ago I had contact with an older woman (almost in my maternal grandparents age), which was my neighbor. She had a relation with a man (they didn't live together)... This man said something that I have never forgotten: "You who are independent..." They saw me as free and "independent"!! I didn't see myself as that at all. Got enormously surprised.

And the friend with his adventurous children: it WAS about bungy-jumping, parachute-jumping etc. He once read psychology, but changed his major (huvudämne in Swedish) to Philosophy, because he didn't agree with the ideas then in psychology (1962 or something?? In New York)... But he seems to be influenced nevertheless by the ideas then (and the ideas later)?? Yes, it can be so brainwashing?

Isn't there some idea that doing such things, challenging ones fears or something is "good"?

Media in Sweden of today is very right-influenced!!! So criticism against neoconservative and moralistic politics isn't heard in public!?? But it exists!?? But, yes, it's a pity it isn't heard in public much more often. It would encourage people: is it okay to think like this??? Wow!! Yes, this is moralistic!!

We are afraid of conflicts?? But...

Now I am turning long-winded again?? I came to think of my boss (female). We have been colleagues almost since we started working 30 years ago. She has been our boss for 10 years!!!! With astonishment I suddenly saw new sides in her, which she revealed when she became boss?? Her temper! Swinging from one extreme to another (though not so she could be labeled "bipolar"; this with diagnosis...). Had I been blind to this earlier?? Actually she is from the west-coast of Sweden! :) One year older than I am.

But this doesn't mean she dare to raise her voice for us (or for the weak)!! And she has been talking a lot about elevvård (care of the students)!! But it is only fine talk I think!

About acting out...

And, yes, I feel like a child: with dropped cheek many times, watching the world.

And, yes, there are strong forces in the pharmaceutical industry!!?? My youngest sister has problems with her stomach... During the New Year we watched an advertisement about pills for this on TV (I didn't put on my mind the name of them) and mom (who is nurse!!) said to T. to buy those... I didn't start to argue... But got extremely tired. You solve things with a pill!! So it was in medicine earlier (pills and surgeries, and authoritarian doctors many times), and this is coming BACK!?? Yes, it is a backlash in society in many areas!? In almost all! Why?? Authoritarian and neoconservative forces!!

The very sad thing is that T., my sister, has been in Gestalt-therapy (and still has contact with the same Gestalt-therapist)... I get so angry over this. That she hasn't been helped better. Gestalt is another one of many manipulative methods!?? This is very painful to writ about it feels...

Karin


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