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Childhood trauma and its consequences
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:21 am 
PS. Oh, excuse! It shouldn't be both Yes and no i the beginning, but only No!??


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:25 pm 
PPS. Steve: I have students today playing Hedvig’s theme from Harry Potter (coming in a new book soon, from a material I am one of those testing), Super Mario, Send in the clowns for instance today!! 

Struck me, when my youngest brother had bought a new cellphone (we call it mobile-telephone) recently he said to mom with a laugh when he was trying to learn how to handle it that maybe he should call Karin and get some tips from her. He is educated engineer from college (4 years education)… But I think he is moderately interested in these things, with cellphones, computers etc.!? For him they are work-tools and he gets enough of them there? I think this attitude is healthy!? That he has that sort of (natural) distance to it, prestige-less in a way I think is good. No, there is no prestige involved; he doesn’t have to prove anything!!??

He has been working for 25 years I think, and is fairly well-paid!?

But I see all possibilities!!!??? To communicate and to create?? And the childish gladness when I manage to do things, with the trial-and-error-method! “Oh, look, what I managed/did!!!” So maybe I am like that 4-year-old?? :?

In fact I got a place too at the engineer-program at college once, which I think is a bit fun… And I could have thought of doing other things; architect, biologist etc. despite I didn’t work especially hard at the gymnasium of some reason. Strange seen to the diligence I developed later!!??

And can there some blood from the Vikings in the Americans, already from Viking-time??

Karin


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:01 am 
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Hi Karin,

It was okay that I was left out, I got plenty of smiles like that later.

I thought about that 'maturity' thing a lot today. Sometimes you'll hear someone say something about somebody's emotional reaction to one thing or another. That it was "mature" or "immature". But again, though there might (hopefully, in my case) be some relation between time passing and behaving in wiser ways, it makes more sense to me that most of that probably is just taught, and taught kind of by "osmosis"--not exactly "by example" (I hate "examples", don't you?) but by something close to that. Sometime and somewhere (I don't think here or now is right for it, in much detail) I hope I record an experience I had, a conversation with the son of US diplomats to Greece. We were both about 19, meeting in a deserted lounge in a college dormitory which was kept open between semesters for students who had nowhere to go. I'd essentially "emancipated" myself and wasn't about to go "home". He, though, very much wished he could--it wasn't just what he said but was obvious from his face and tone. But his parents had both been killed in a car accident just a few years earlier, in Greece. There had obviously been much love there. I don't know how I managed it, maybe I just told him I "wasn't able" to see my folks, but I know I didn't tell him my story. It really just seemed "unspeakable". Other than that the main thing that struck me was how different he and I were. I'd have to think a lot more before I could find the right words to describe him, but I'm not sure I've ever met anyone more personable, friendly, genuine or sincere--I had the unmistakable feeling he would do well in any situation with people, would come away from even tough spots not just without having poured gas on the fire, but actually admired and respected, everything and everybody going smooth. Completely "mature" is one way of putting it. At 19! I'd be stunned to learn he did not do extremely well in life; basically I wouldn't believe it. The point is, even thirty-five years later it's probably fair to say that I don't have three-fourths the social skill or control of myself that he had then--or that he no doubt had for years before that. So: what's "growing up"? (I'm not putting myself down--I'm not a complete social waste--the fact is this guy was extraordinary.)

I don't know about: "maybe push people away where I get response... " Trust yourself and don't worry?

People having "different sides" has been a big interest of mine. I've seen a lot of that in my personal life, in others (a lot of them close to me), and it's made me wonder how much of that might be in me as well. "Moods" are one thing, and I know I have those.

Re your colleague's approbation: don't that feel good?

Karin, I don't know exactly what I think of you, there. You're probably okay I guess, though I have to wonder what there might be about you that made so many other Swedes come live here! http://www.amazon.com/New-Land-Max-von-Sydow/dp/6303039596

"can there some blood from the Vikings in the Americans, already from Viking-time??" Not from the Newfoundland settlements, since they were abandoned, but no question there is from later and from other places. Jorma Kaukonen always struck me as being Viking-ish. http://www.jormakaukonen.com/index.php

Okay even though I use all ten fingers to type instead of just two and am using my own language, I'm totally beaten, have to give up.

Nice talking,
later, Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:50 am 
Steve,

Quote:
Steve wrote: …probably is just taught...


Karin: That triggered something!! A lot actually? You hit the nail (??). “Just taught!!” Learned from outside. As a marionette! That’s exactly how it is many, many times??? No real confidence in the child and its good will or inner capacities, for instance for love etc. You are behaving natural, normal, well-adapted, but more or less cleverly or intelligently?

And some children catch (captures??) this at once!?? An intelligent (!!!?) child does!? I can see the small girl I was, or rather maybe in the beginning teens, as fairly superficial sad to say… You can behave well-adapted and in the right way?? You watch the environment and copy it??

But somewhere when I had passed 30 I suddenly started to write in another way… I can see it on my note-books where I have written my name and when I bought a particular note-book. I also started to dress differently. Bought a shock-pink winter-coat which was modern then. And dared to wear it… Cut my hair differently. And started to awake in the mornings with anxiety… Forbidden to be visible, be colourful, be seen?

Ingmar Bergman has written something (I have read his books in first hand, almost all of them, not seen all films, or very few of them) that it took a micro-second before he acted/reacted spontaneously… He was an actor he thought? But a very clever actor, that fooled the environment – and maybe - at first - himself!!?? His openness about himself and his life (relative or?? No I think he is fairly honest!??) has meant a lot…

But of course he was born 1918 (two years before my dad was born actually), so he is maybe child of his time?? But he had a self-awareness that wasn’t common in men born then?? Or? But I don’t want to put him on a pedestal… He had his sides… And was influenced by Freudian ideas, about Oedipus complex (we call it Oidipuskomplex, spell it differently) etc.

And, yes of course there were reasons why people emigrated to America!! Peopl starved here... I had relatives who did in my grandparents generation (on dad's side). And an aunt with husband and sons on mom's side who did, but returned to Sweden…

Hmmm I seem to be very fond of Sweden??  And have a hate-love for US??? In fact I got an mail yesterday from Music Mind Games about teacher’s training courses in Maryland the coming summer… That would be an opportunity to go to America?? Which would be fun!!! Really, really fun! But, there’s a but, I am afraid of the long trip in a plane, not for the flying in itself, but I have claustrophobia, so think if I need to go to “the bathroom” (summer 2006 I was auscultator at a Suzuki-course in the south-east of Sweden and there were American people there. When we were rushing to the first class on morning after breakfast I met an American woman asking for the bathroom! “Bathroom???” I wondered for myself!! “Bathing???” But then I understood!!?? The shy Swedes are more straightforward there!!?  We say “the toilet”! ).

And from where does this claustrophobia come? No, I don’t think it sits in the genes, and not that human species is born with this… O course I can be wrong…

And the Viking-men couldn’t they have spread their genes in Newfoundland to the "inuites" there? Because, yes, I caught (??) that, that they abandoned their settlements there… 
Quote:
Steve wrote: So: what's "growing up"? (I'm not putting myself down--I'm not a complete social waste--the fact is this guy was extraordinary.)


Karin: No, I don’t think you are!! I didn’t interpret you so either! :)

Quote:
Steve wrote: Re your colleague's approbation: don't that feel good?


Karin: Yes, actually it did!!

Quote:
Steve wrote: Okay even though I use all ten fingers to type instead of just two and am using my own language, I'm totally beaten, have to give up.


Karin: Hmmm…  I hope you did, really!! :-)

Quote:
Steve wrote: Nice talking


Karin:I say the same!

Hug to you (we are no huggers in my family! But I can hug my students and I hug my nephews and my niece; if they allow it!? I hope I don't force any hugs on anyone! And yesterday, by the way, I had a new pupil, a small peppy-eyed (???) Hanna, soon turning 7, for the first time. She came with her dad, her proud dad? You should have seen her!!!).
Karin

PS. Oh, how nice these films exist in English! And Sweden is smalL, so it can be problematic to live here if you are very well-known. I don't know if you know about Peter Stormare? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Stormare He grew up in a village I moved to when I was 18, he seemed to have moved from it by then?? Mom still lives in this area, 10 km north of Arbrå. He is born the year before I was born... Looks like we are in the same age from your posting (counted swiftly in my head: 19 + 34).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:13 pm 
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One comment I like to make.

Karin wrote:
And from where does this claustrophobia come? No, I don’t think it sits in the genes, and not that human species is born with this… O course I can be wrong…


Claustrophobia is an irrational fear. And as always with phobias, the person doesn't know why he or she is experiencing them. But the body remembers it. Some time in your life you were in a small place and couldn't get out. It must have scared you a lot. This could even go back to a problematic birth where the baby struggled to get out, or when the delivery was delayed because the obstetrician hadn't arrived (some babies were literally held back by the hands of nurses). I'm a bit surprised to hear that you consider genetic causes in phobias. Isn't the core of Alice Miler's discoveries based on the fact that all irrational fears are based on environmental factors? What you feel during a panic attack of feeling claustrophobic is a real physical memory of an event (or multiple events) from your early life. Taken such feelings seriously, as what they are: memories of the past, is in my opinion crucial in integrating these feelings so that they won't cause panic anymore.

Dennis

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Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with in my opinion...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:15 pm 
Dennis,

No, I don't think they sit in genes, but I know (or maybe expect??) that people reading this can come with such explanations. Because I know there are ideas that this is something (like fear for heights etc.) that stems from early in human species development.

I wanted to underline this. But maybe that I wrote like this was a sort of "remission" as the well-behaviored "girl" I still am? Or how I shall express it. I don't know, somewhere waiting or expecting to get advices how to handle it?? Train this away.

When I googled on "fobiträning" I got a lot of hits immediately http://www.google.se/search?q=fobitr%C3 ... FB_svSE228 !! :wink: You shall (and can) cleverly train it, so you get rid of it!!?

And I got a lot of hits when I searched on "phobia training" too!! :wink: http://www.affectphobia.org/trainingteam.html One was how to train fear for the dentist! But fear for dentists or for doing something in the mouth can stem from oral sexual abuse!! Is the best method to train that away? Horrible and sad... Because noone want to hear what the person from this has been exposed to? (but I have non such problems!! I don' have phobia for dentists - actually have very fine teeth! :wink: Have done a lot in my mouth, even surgeries).

And there are more members in my family suffering from this. My dad for instance. He had even worse problems than I have. Or they grew with age? And many see this as profs for genetic causes...

I saw things in my dad the last summer he lived which I have wondered about...

No, I think we who are suffering from this have experienced something... Yes, maybe even at birth? I was blue when I was born, but the delivery wasn't slow for a woman getting her first baby.

And what we wrote about smiling babies, Steve, (one thing gives the other) I came to think that mom remembers when she got her first smile from me as a small baby. I think I was just a couple of weeks, and she had gone down from the neighbors one stair up where she and dad was visiting the family there (for coffee or something) to look at the small baby. If she slept or. I was awake and gave her a smile. But I thought further: she (and dad) left a small baby totally alone in an apartment! I wonder if a baby doesn't sense this? How is this? "I am left alone!! Alone for ever??" Some therapists say a small child doesn't have sense for time: that this will end.It is an end to this!

Better conditions for people gave them possibilities to have homes with more rooms. So one could let even small children (babies too) sleep in a room separated from its parents. I found this when I wrote a blogposting... About that children need touching and attention - children reflect the treatment they receive: http://www.naturalchild.org/research/ha ... ntion.html

Karin


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