Primals not possible for everybody?
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Author:  Mojo [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Primals not possible for everybody?

I read the most recent Paul Vereshack article on the PPP, "Answers to an Endless Questioner." He writes in an interesting and thoughtful way. It sounds like someone has been sending him lots of emails full of intellectualized questions about his therapy method. After having read "A General Theory of Love" it occurs to me that there may be some people who can never resolve deep pain by means of relivings. The authors say research has shown that lack of attachment and severe emotional deprivation at a very young age impairs the growth of the limbic system. Maybe cognitive therapy is the only way to help people in that situation, and forcing primals would be a kind of re-traumatization. Neuroscientist Joseph LeDoux said this in his most recent book "Synaptic Self"...
"[There is] an imperfect set of connections between cognitive and emotional systems in the current stage of evolution of the human brain. This state of affairs is part of the price we pay for having newly evolved cognitive capacities that are not yet fully integrated into our brains."

So even with a fully functioning limbic system, access to repressed pain isn't going to be an easy ride.

* Mojo *

Author:  Phil [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:15 am ]
Post subject: 

About what Joseph LeDoux says on imperfect connections between
the cognitive and emotional systems. Maybe he is seeing imperfect connections because we all seem to be loaded with primal pain. That's
why our cognitive capacities are not fully integrated.

About some individuals being unable to primal because the growth of the limbic system has been impaired. That could be true but some amazing things can happen when people are able to increase there feeling levels.
Eventually they may primal.
Maybe that impairment can be reversed. Also primals should never be forced. If they aren't, it shouldn't be retraumatizing.

Scientists continually want to look at systems or subsystems of a person like the limbic system etc. Primalling involves the entire person in a holistic way. Scientists need to go back and look at the whole person again as an individual.

I think the problem is that when there is so much pain it is just going to take a real long time to heal. It has to come up a little at a time otherwise it will lead to disintegration rather than integration. But given time it will work.

Author:  PaulV [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Intellectual control vs Primal work

Thank you for your positive comments about my article.

What I would like to add here is that while primal work is not right for everyone, cognitive interventions would not be my first line of treatment after that. On my own web site at http://www.paulvereshack.com under the Questions from the Internet section I talk about modifying primal therapy to be less intense.

There are subtle ways to slow the therapy down, decrease the depth and increase the support from the therapist without intruding therapist belief into the client's sacred mind body space.

Cognitive therapy leaves the unconscious under much pressure and hence has very serious limitations........Paul V.

Author:  Mojo [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Replies to Phil and PaulV.

Maybe he is seeing imperfect connections because we all seem to be loaded with primal pain. That's why our cognitive capacities are not fully integrated.

I've wondered about this too. Where do researchers get brains to study? From unclaimed bodies in mortuaries? There are organ donors, but surely only a tiny percentage of the population leave their entire bodies to science. Most non-neurotic people who have been successful in social and family relationships are buried with great ceremony. That leaves the unloved, friendless cadavers for scientists to dissect, and they are probably the ones who reached then end of their lives in considerable emotional pain.

On the other hand, who needs to study brains? Just look at the history of man's inhumanity to man. Slavery, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. In all those cases citizens with power were treating disenfranchised, powerless fellow citizens in a cruel and unfeeling way.


Agreed. Personally I would regard cognitive therapy as a last resort for people who want a quick fix instead of dismantling defenses and repression. I read your book online. I was thinking of the chapter on the levels of therapeutic intensity. The article you wrote reminded me that you said "sitting up" therapy is for people who want to avoid any threat to their rational idea of themselves or their intellectual defenses. Your article left me with the impression that an endless stream of questions had left you feeling that the questioner's defensive wall was too high at the present time.

* Mojo *

Author:  Paul v [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  defences

Correct Mojo.

What is the most scary thing is that many of these questioners do not see the defensive nature of questions. This early blindness to how subtle defences really are is the dangerous aspect of those who have not crossed over from moving away, to moving toward feelings as a depth self study mechanism.

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