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Childhood trauma and its consequences
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 Post subject: Post fload?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:26 am 
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I´m very hapy that I have found this website. This is the first time when I find some people which has experience with RST therapy. I tried to do this last six months. But I didn´t get the Post fload. At the end of my trying I got feeling that It never stops. The post fload never comes. But now I´m not surre. There is something which is so strog when I redirect. Is there somebody who has experience with post fload. Is realy possible to finish this therapy?


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Hello Watic, and welcome to the forum. Post Flood is a term used by Ellie van Winkle to describe the time when 99 percent of all major childhood injury has integrated. In my opinion it's never good to do therapy with a clock next to you and injury differs from person to person, together with the current situation. What would you consider a current factor that you can't overcome or integrate in your life?

Dennis

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Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with in my opinion...


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Hallo Dennis,
thank you for your answer and for making this page. I know some theory from biology of emotions and forum on gocure.com. And you are right, it´s not possible to compare individual stories of people and their recovering. I only want to know if is possible to recovery using RST therapy and If somebody has got somethink like Post fload. After six months (or something like that) my rst therapy, I lose the power to continue. It started seem like dependence and I wanted to stop. But I´m still not sure because I feel very good after redirecting everytime. So it´s because I want to know somebody who went through this therapy. I also have 300 hours of psychoanalysis and I´m still doing this therapy. So I´m not sure how to say about my problems simply. There is many things. But ground is that I´m not able show to other people my border. I still suppress my anger and than I´m not able to feel other emotions. It´s something like cover on myself. I feel alone with other people and with myself too. And what about you? Why are you doing this page?
Watic


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I'm not sure people has reached Post Flood because I think there are some misunderstanding about that term. It's a matter of interpretation. Post Flood doesn't mean a life without pain, but pain that's connected to a source. A lot of people that seek therapy are in severe pain and like any person, they don't want to feel that pain anymore. That's why therapy that acts like a pain killer (talk therapy for example) or pills that suppress pain, are very popular in society. Taking yourself seriously, and listening to your body in certain situations can help you get in touch with the causes. Controlling pain is something that most injured people are good at, because that was a necessity in childhood as there was no alternative, and losing that control can feel very frightened. That's what I call the "Leap of Faith" because that's what it feels like, going where you haven't been before and you're scared to death of it. People who went that far in a feeling-oriented therapy have told me that by looking back the step wasn't such a big step, but it wasn't easy in a world where the majority of people tell you to NOT feel. That's one of the reasons why I've set up this website and forum, so anyone can participate and meet people who share similar views and learn from that. Having an alternative to choose is important in a world dominated by pharmaceuticals and "quick fix" therapies.

Psychoanalysis is the opposite of feeling-based therapy. Such a therapy will not only slow down your recovery but will prevent it. Are there specific situations, in which you feel you have to suppress your anger? For me anger was never a problem, but anger is just one emotion, not necessary more important than the others. On this forum there are several people who have written about their experience with RST, but it differs from each person. Daniel Mackler wrote articles on self-therapy (including Van Winkle's) that you can find here: http://iraresoul.com/self_therapy_essays.html

Dennis

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Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with in my opinion...


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:29 pm 
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I guess that some children doesn´t have a choice. And they have to suppress their pain and anger because they are absolutely dependent on their parents. They start to learn how to hide their feelings and emotions because they don´t know what to do with them. My story from the childhood is something like: "You must help your mother because she doesn´t feel well" "You are accountable for it" "do something funny" .... So, in this situacion when I was scary what happend with my mother I had to make some fun. Early I started to feel accountable for moods of my mother. But I can´t help her. Fix her problems. Nobody asked me "how do you feel in this situacion?" And when I started to scream they said "how are you talking to me! It´s not good, you are bad child" So, now when somebody cross my border and I should do something I feel shame and guilty. I´m still this bad child.
But I don´t thing that psychoanalysis can´t help. There is also many emotions which is conecting to this process and it is absolutely not only about thiking or talking. I also started to talk to my parents about problems between us(after 30 years) and it wasn´t only about "to say" or "to thik". It was hard job full of emotions, scary and pain. Same starts between me and other people, but very slowly. I´m still scary.
And you are right. We doesn´t want to live with our pain. We try don´t see and don´t feel those things in our lives. This is main background of most neurosis. Especially in this age when is everithing perfect and cool.
I met RST before two years and before one year I started to do it every day. After six months I stoped. You know why. But still I don´t feel that it has finished for me. I still want to try to do it. I only need to share some experience with other people which are doing same. Not to be alone. So thank you. You are doing good job here. And it´s helpful also for me


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:21 am 
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Hi Watic,

My sense is that RST is an excellent therapy for those who choose to use it, And I am also aware that there are times when we need an enlightened witness to 'be there' for us as we face our earliest pain and needs. We need a physical presence. It sounds like you have worked hard to try to achieve this place of post flood, and perhaps now for the remainder of your healing journey it might be good to find such a person to fully support you in this process. I am not sure where you are in the world? Have you looked for a deep feeling therapist? I am copying below an article from Alice Miller's site which might be helpful if you choose to find an 'enlightened witness',.i.e a therapist who wears the T-shirt, and who has walked the walk.

I wish you well in your search. I believe that there is a stage of post flood, but not post primal, and many people confuse this place. When we are on the edge of flood, we need all the support we can get Here is an article by Sam Turton which might also speak to you. http://www.primalworks.com/thoughts/thought020304.html


FAQ: How to find the right therapist

I know how difficult it is to find the right therapist but I still believe that it is possible if you know what you need. So I try to answer here some questions that may encourage you to check the attitude of the candidate for your therapist; but please take this text as a draft and don't hesitate to make comments or additions. (I decided to speak of the therapist as a "she," but of course both genders are meant.)

1. What do I need to overcome my plight?

You need an empathic, honest person who would help you to take seriously the knowledge of your body, a person who already succeeded to do the same for herself because she had the chance to have found this kind of help that you are looking for.
2. How can I know if a therapist is this kind of person?

By asking many questions.
3. This idea scares me. Why don't I dare to ask questions?

As a child you were probably punished for asking questions because they might have shaken your parents' position of power. Your questions were often ignored or you were given lies instead of true answers. This was very painful. Now, you are afraid that this might happen again. It CAN happen that you will not be understood or that your questions trigger the fears and defenses of a therapist but you are no longer the helpless child without any options. You can leave and look for another therapist. The child could not leave, so he tried to change his parents, some people do it (symbolically) their whole life. But as an adult you have options. You can, with the support of the forum, recognize the lies, the poisonous pedagogy and the defenses. You must only take seriously what you hear, not deny your uneasiness, and not hope that you will be able to change this person (the parent) later. You will not. She will need therapy herself, and this shouldn't be your job as long as YOU pay the honorary.
4. I feel guilty because of my mistrust. If I can't trust I will never find what is good for me.

Your mistrust has a history and your need for SPECIAL understanding too. Your caregiver didn't deserve your trust and the child felt this very strongly because his body knew the truth. It couldn't develop trust. Now, trust your body signals, it is the silenced child who is speaking, who starts to talk and needs your truthfulness. If you don't feel good with a person, take your feelings seriously, don't push them away, try to understand these feelings. Once you feel truly and deeply understood by someone, your body will let you know this immediately and very clearly, it will be relaxed without any special exercises.
5. What do I risk by asking questions from the beginning?

Nothing. You can only win. If the answer is hostile or very incomplete or defensive, you can gain much money and time by leaving. On the other hand, if the answer you got is satisfying, you will feel encouraged to ask more. And this is what you should do.
6. Which kind of questions am I allowed to ask?

Whatever you need to know. But above all don't forget to ask the candidate for your therapist about her childhood and her experiences during her training. Where did she get her training, what was helpful to her, what was not? How does she feel about the defeats, does she have the freedom to see what was wrong or does she protect people who damaged her? Does she minimize the damage? Was she beaten as a child? How does she value this experience? Is she really aware of its consequences for her later life, or is she denying its importance? Does she avoid the confrontation with her own pain? In the last case she will do everything to silence you, not always visibly.
7. Is it a good sign if she tells me that she has read Alice Miller's "Drama?"

It doesn't say anything. Ask you how she FELT about "For Your Own Good" and the other books, also ask about her criticisms. What helped her personally, what didn't? What is in her opinion the main healing factor? Is she capable of deep feelings or does she prefer an intellectual analysis to keep distance? This you may even find with primal therapists who makes you feel the helpless child for years and years so that they can "help" you, but without being themselves able to feel on a deeper level. Then you may end up in a dependence on them and on your feelings of a helpless, unchangeable rage against your parents without being able to free yourself for what YOU really need. A good therapist must help you to find and fulfill YOUR OWN needs, neglected for such a long time, needs for free expression, for being understood, respected and taken seriously. When you begin to look for fulfillment and to protect the child, the rage and hatred will leave you, they will fade. They are alarm signals of your repetition of parental neglect and contempt; they do not have the therapeutic quality we are so often told they have.
8. Am I not intrusive when I ask so many questions?

Not at all. You have the right to be sufficiently informed and she must have the courage, the awareness and the honesty to answer you in a proper way. Otherwise she is not the right person for you.
9. With this position, am I then looking for an ideal that doesn't exist?

I don't think so. You see on the forum ourchildhood.int that honesty, awareness, compassion, courage, and openness DO EXIST. Why should these qualities not be expected from your therapist?

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Clare


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 Post subject: Re: Post fload?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Abused children never have a choice. They cannot choose another set of parents; parents who love him, who care about him and listen to him, parents who value his life and help him when he needs it. Unfortunately an abused child cannot choose that because he doesn't think his parents are the wrong ones. It must be him, because abusive parents tell him that every day (read for example Alice Miller's For Your Own Good). Once the child believes he's the wrong one, he will develop a believe system that supports that. And he will suppress the legitimate anger as he has learn not to rebel, not to criticize as it made his parents angry and it lead to punishment, isolation, shame. But the child's needs don't disappear, because they are human and they are essential. He wants his parents to show: Love me, Take care of me, Help Me. And that can last a life time. Abusive parents never change and can never change because it has already happened, in your childhood. As an adult it doesn't matter if your parents mysteriously have become the greatest people you could imagine, it was the child who needed that to develop, not the adult.

No child should fulfill the needs of his parents. That's child abuse. It's okay to be scared because it was very scary to be at the mercy of abusive parents. Scarier than anything else in life. The first time I disagreed with an authority figure (a medical doctor) from which I needed something, I was trembling but I continued because I had to take care of me in the first place, to become my own advocate and I started a law suit on my own despite the strong discouragement from my parents and family. But eventually I won, which boosted my confidence in facing my fears and realizing my needs. But such a journey is never easy when there are no people around you who are on your side.

I also wanted to link to the Therapist FAQ but see that Clare already has done that. Another source of interesting feeling oriented therapy is Arthur Janov's Blog: http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/

Dennis

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Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with in my opinion...


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