Debunking primal therapy website

[Shelley]

I've been reading at this new website and thought some here might be interested as well:

http://www.debunkingprimaltherapy.com/

Shelley

[Clare]

Thanks for this Shelley,

There is a ongoing discussion about it on ewail at present. All grist for the mill!!

[D.R.B.]

I came across that site about a month ago. The "Your Stories" part was empty and I was put off by the large number of pages to wade through. This time I found a lengthy personal testimony in "Your Stories." I think only an unfeeling person could fail to be moved by it. The writer covers all the misgivings and indications of abuse that used to trickle into John Speyrer's forum in dribs and drabs. I think he's right on the money when he says of Janov writings:

By all means tell people about humane birthing, about loving your children etc, but don’t tell people their lives will remain empty without your therapy.

It's the key to the cultism. The cult I once joined drew recruits from the pool of people with no trustworthy relationships beyond their place of education or employment. Today, that would probably include people whose lives center around online communities -- individuals they've never met in real life. I would say supportive real-life friendships are worth just as much as good therapy. It all boils down to having at least one enlightened witnesses who can give you a hug when you need it. What help is it to overcome repression if you have no friends who understand? The guy who submitted his story found out his primal friends were only fair-weather friends. They quickly switched to blaming the victim.

[Sofia]

Hi everybody,

I read the post that provided a link "Debunking Primal Therapy" . Since I first read the first primal scream over two decades ago, at first, I was fascinated by the "discovery" of Dr. Yanov on healing, anyone suffering or a family or friend wouldn't hesitate to consider primal therapy. It sounded miraculous and I was ready to face it had I the money. However, the more I tried to understand it the more I got entangled about it. This website done by a person who has been in it confirms my doubts and he explains it so well, it makes sense me. Anybody that has healed in life would be so well and want to share with the world his or her ideas. The secrecy was disturbing and it was like plunging into the blue sea hoping for the best. I am now pleased I never was rich enough to adventure there. The preequisites were impossible for majority, thank God!

I read the whole website and I am afraid it clearly illustrates the terrible truth he is sharing with those interested. The more I read about the center the more it assumed a mysterious and or cult aspect. Sounds like the Jehova's Witness stuff where most of the followers enter dreaming to find an ideal world or interim world while waiting for the ideal one to come. Many can't breakaway when they realise it is not what they thought. Another example, is like somebody who has believed in God all their life and comes to the realisation that nothing like that exists - at least in the way it had been conceptualised

Thank you Shelley, very informative, though a dissappointing realisation to confirm.

I wonder what Dennis thinks, the "entry question here: What's the first name of the man who wrote The Primal Scream ...."

Sofia.

[Dennis]

I've only glanced at the site but some us have discussed Janov's therapy in John Speyrer's old forum. I only know Janov from his books, but when it comes to therapy, I tend to side with Jeffrey Masson (who wrote 'Against Therapy'). I've never seen primal therapy as something that stand on its own, but as an important piece of the puzzle. I will read the site as soon as I have the time for it. These weeks I'm working every day on breaking down an old timber house and that takes its time. I'm breaking down walls of wood for a change

Yes, I need to update the question of the writer of the Primal Scream.

Dennis

[D.R.B.]

There's another story at the top of the "Your Stories" page since my previous post. The author is quite witty. Too many to good quips to quote here. I didn't know about "fourth line" pain before

[Guest]

I might as well add, and I know this is repetitive, but there is another side to this story.
I am a person completely satisfied with my experience at a Janov Primalling Center, but not the current Primal Center.
The process works for me as Janov describes it.
There is also a response to the "Debunking Primal Therapy" website which is linked on Wikipedia under Primal Therapy.

It is just too easy to make generalizations. There are apparently plenty of people who have good experiences, just as I have.
It all depends on the experience of the given individual.
All that matters for me personally is that there is a "primal process"
which works for me. I don't have to go to any particular primal clinic to have it work.

Phil

[Guest]

NOTE FROM THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS FORUM: The following deleted post of a WHOIS registration was not the real address of the owner of debunkingprimaltherapy.com but a registration to protect the privacy of the owner. Address and name mentioned were fictional. Real addresses that are posted against the will of the owner are not tolerated. However, to avoid any further misunderstandings and emails about this, I've removed it.


A domain name search on the debunking website comes up with this:

-- Deleted --

[D.R.B.]

To All:

I found two new reader submissions since I last visited http://www.debunkingprimaltherapy.com/your_stories

To Guest:

You found a name for the domain owner. So what? What are you going to do with it? Are you the same person who got BruceW into trouble with the Primal Center? If anyone needs a reminder, see "Apology and retraction" in the forum's "Press & Media" category.

To Phil:

Yes, Phil, you're being repetitive. You haven't expressed any compassion for the people who were harmed by the therapy regime. I suspect that despite all your years of primalling you don't care much about anyone else's emotional pain. That would be empathy, by the way. It doesn't count for much to say it as a face-saving afterthought -- "Of course I care, but, but..."

Janov attracted a few newsworthy clients in the early days because he said he had a "cure" for neurosis. You said on this forum that you attended the Primal Institute in New York. It closed down in the early 1980's. And you're still primalling? You're not "cured" yet? That doesn't reflect well on Primal Therapy.

Out of 17 Amazon customer reviews for "Primal Healing" up to now, 9 were supporters while 8 had doubts or warned against it. So yes, some people are satisfied with the therapy they received, but that is not sufficient reason to discount recurring reports of abuse. There shouldn't be ANY abuse. None whatsoever. I doubt there has ever been a psychotherapy method which was immune from abusive practitioners. But Janov scoffs at all the other approaches to psychotherapy. Most of them have more satisfied former clients than you could ever find to write supportive testimonials for primal therapy at the 'official' center. That's easy to explain. At most, only a few thousand clients can have passed through his doors in all the years since it opened (not all of them satisfied). So it's clear to me that promoting primal therapy is not the best way to build a better society. A more effective way to reach that goal would be to support and publicize campaigners for helping mode childrearing. I've mentioned a few in other posts. Parenting blogs seem to be where the action is on that front.

[Phil]

To D.R.B.,

I have said enough on primal. But what form of healing do you recommend, how successful is it, how does it work, what is the theory? All I have ever really heard from you is criticism. Is there anything constructive for those interested in healing, but not necessarily saving the world?

Phil

[Guest]

I forgot to say that I am looking to D.R.B. for future contributions here. He has extensive background surfing Amazon and other important sources of information such as parenting blogs (that is where the action is). So I would certainly recommend him for information both on primal therapy and saving our societies.

[D.R.B.]

I don't know if the comment added by 'Guest' is actually from Phil. Either way, surfing a wide range of information sources, not just Amazon and relevant blogs, is generally considered to be a good way to keep an open mind -- whatever the topic. At the other extreme are groups like the Scientologists. They believe that Dianetics is the only valid psychotherapy method because it was invented by someone they regard as the ultimate source of all wisdom -- L. Ron Hubbard.

In answer to your question, Phil, I would point out that you don't need to ask me. A huge amount of independed reasearch into therapy methods and their success rates has been published in reputable journals. I've seen much of it summarized in magazine articles and popular paperbacks. Primal Therapy is the odd one out, because Janov doesn't give a publication reference for his research with Steven Rose and has never bothered to mention the independent outcome study by Videgard. If any other truly independent outcome studies into Primal Therapy have been published anywhere, Janov and and all his supporters are keeping damn quiet about it.

But I won't evade your question -- "what form of healing do you recommend?" I stated my opinion in the first reply I posted in this thread:

I would say supportive real-life friendships are worth just as much as good therapy. It all boils down to having at least one enlightened witnesses who can give you a hug when you need it. What help is it to overcome repression if you have no friends who understand?

[Guest]

D.R.B.: I am tired of being attacked here when I mention my positive experiences with primal. Especially since primal therapy and Arthur Janov are mentioned in the subtext of this forum as one of the topics.

The most valid comments on any forms of healing are from the participants. Which means the author of Debunking Primal has some important things to say, and what I say is worth consideration. Then there is quoting what other people say.

I also really meant to ask, D.R.B., what your own personal experiences with healing have been. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is, that having read some Alice Miller books, you are off to save the world.
But taking on beliefs or theories from some books is not the same as doing one's own healing work. Hugs from friends who listen is a good start but does not amount to much of a therapy. What about people who are in such a state that they have no friends? This is just a gross under-estimation of what people with mental/health and emotionalproblems go through and what they need. It is laughable.


Phil

[Guest]

It now looks like one of this forum's own members has submitted this place in to "debunking" as not being a good reflection of primal.

http://www.debunkingprimaltherapy.com/your_stories

[D.R.B.]

The most valid comments on any forms of healing are from the participants.

You haven't said anything about the abusiveness reported by former Primal Center patients -- which are equally valid comments from the participants.

What about people who are in such a state that they have no friends? This is just a gross under-estimation of what people with mental/health and emotional problems go through and what they need. It is laughable.

That's a fair comment. A good measure of healing would be if patients who had been through the therapy came out better equipped to establish worthwhile friendships. I don't accept that primalling alone for years on end after leaving the Institute is a good indicator of healing.