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Childhood trauma and its consequences
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 Post subject: primal therapy abroad
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:27 pm 
I had primal therapy in 1989/1990 in Los Angeles and wish I would have stayed in therapy longer, but went home for education. Primal Therapy is the best therapy I have done.

Here in Sweden the psycology field is behind most modern countries unfortunately. Its like a dessert terapywise.

Wish some primal therapeut were certified to practise here.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Hello Anette, I'm curious how Sweden is according to your opinion behind most modern countries when it comes to therapy. As you may or not may know, I live in Sweden as well and I know how often the psychiatry is in the news when a psychiatric patient has randomly killed. Today again, someone with a rifle shot someone at the train station in Norrk?ping, which probably will be linked to a psychiatric past. However, I think psychiatric treatment in most other countries is just as bad if not worse. Primal Therapy, if done right, is better than any other therapy out there, and it surely deserves more attention.

Dennis


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:30 pm 
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Hi Annette,

Have you come across this site http://www.solverv.com/. I know its not Sweden. Its Norway, but its a lot closer than California.

Has anyone heard anything about the therapists there?

Clare

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 Post subject: therapy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:19 pm 
Hi Dennis,

Are you from Sweden or only living here?

I know about therapy in England and Germany and a little from Norway, but can only talk from my own experience and from heresay. England and Germany is definetly more advanced than here.

I also read some litteratur about what happened in the 1960-1980 and was told that Sweden always came last when it came to modernizing mental helath care. Italy was the first country with radical ideas. The rest of Europe follwed example.

The writings in Swedish newspapers about crazy people killing themselves or others is probably a way to restore the mental hospitals. It is a propganda act to bring back the old system that they left behind. A lot more murders in Sweden is done by "mentally healthy people". It is also sad the way the goverment dismissed people from mental hospitals giving them no help or housing.


Anyway a lot is going into cognitiv direction. You think different and you be just fine. Or you behave different and the same.

My question is if anybody knows why qualified primal therapeuts are not allowed to practise in Europe?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:23 am 
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I live in Sweden for about ten years now, I'm originally from Holland. The therapeutic situation in Sweden is far from ideal but I wouldn't say that it's so much better abroad. Maybe there are more alternatives to choose from abroad. I'm always surprised to see that there are so few alternatives in every aspect of the Swedish culture.

I once saw a documentary at the Gothenburg Film Festival about psychiatry in Norway and it was very shocking. Electric shock treatment and lobotomy is still practiced there. The therapeutic situation in Holland is nothing to be proud of either. There are many (expensive) private practices, but the ones that are 'free' have large waiting lists and people in desperate need of help are often being ignored.

There's no such thing as 'qualified primal therapist'. Janov certifies his trained therapists but other than that it's whatever someone makes of it. There's a lot of malpractice in so-called primal therapy. Just having a look on the site Clare mentioned, where it says:

The main theoretical basis for the work, both practically and theoretically, is in Therapy Cycle Process (TCP), which is a synthesis of several body oriented, psychodynamic and cognitive psychotherapeutic processes. They have special competence and experience in working with couples with communication issues as well as sexology issues.

and:

WHAT IS THE THERAPY CYCLE PROCESS?

The main bases for this unique way of working is Pesso Boyden System Psychotherapy, primal therapy, vegetotherapy, and functional/cognitive psychotherapy.


This seems to me like a bizarre mixture of methods, not being integrated within Primal Therapy. If you read these excerpts from a Belgian therapist, then it's much more what Primal stands for:

http://primalforum.freepgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51

I suppose the reason why so few therapists choose for Primal is maybe because college people tend to have more aversion towards emotions and feelings and choose the intellectual courses. Maybe society needs to re-think the concept of 'the therapist' and focus more on the 'enlightened witness', who can be part of some kind of organization. People that can open their house to those who are in need of help.

Dennis


Last edited by Dennis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: alternativ treatment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:21 pm 
Dennis,

Its all interesting what you write. Yes in college they dont take much interest in feelings. And it is a new trend to mix all kinds of therapies together wih each other.

I have thought about what happens after you can feel and function more up to your best level and you discover all you missed out in life, how then will you catch up? Maybe you need social skills and a group therapy can give it to you. Or maybe the society should take more interest in things like that. A society where therapy and life is a part of each other. Which brings me to an very interesting book I recently read.

I found the book in the library and its written by a psykologist called Alain Topor. He talk about a man called Franco Baglia who started radicalising the whole thinking about mental illness in Trieste, Italy. He discovered that as long as they kept the big hospitals running with its auctoritarian regimes it would affect the whole society into a very actoritarian one. So they closed them down and started to treat people within the society. Topor talk about needs, and giving the little man power over his own life.

The whole society became healtier after this event and they opended up for open psyciatric clinics with reduced prizes for neurotics. Before that I dont know what they had here in Sweden. According to the book Sweden was late in Europe to adopt to this new ideas.

I spend a lot of time learning alternative medicin and know that the hospitals are only treating symptoms. But deasease comes from a combination of mental pain and not taking caring of yourself.

We need an insurance policy where psycological treatment is included in healthcare and we can choose to which therapist we want to go.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:50 am 
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Sounds indeed like an interesting book you have read, Annette. I also think that closed psychiatric institutions are not the solution, unless the patient has committed severe crimes or is about to. Maybe you've read about the psychiatric debate in Sweden last year where Anders Milton was put under pressure to reform the Psychiatric system in Sweden. See for example this Swedish article:
http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=237&a=310621

I think an open system where people in need can choose a person or a family that is willing to open their house to them and get financial compensation from the government, would work well. A list that would be available at the doctor's office. If this was set up in a small city as an experiment during a few years, I'll bet the outcome would be very positive. With today's technology it would be easy to implement some kind of social control on the ones involved to prevent abusive situations.

I also believe in the holistic approach. People are not just body or mind, they belong together and interact with each other. I'm happy to see that more and more young people understand this as well.

Thanks for your posts, Annette.

Dennis


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:49 am 
Dennis wrote: "I think an open system where people in need can choose a person or a family that is willing to open their house to them". I have had the same idea, for people who grew up in a family which wasn't at all a family, and therefore had no childhood at all.

It's funny that the day before Anders Milton wrote this article about useless treatment, NRK (Norwegian National Broadcasting) - I live in Oslo, Norway - talked about therapy that doesn't work.

What they were talking about there, now has resulted in a book, Klienten - den glemte terapeut , http://www.bokkilden.no:80/SamboWeb/pro ... Id=2595348 , which was published this summer.

For people reading Norwegian, Swedish or Danish: Boken er etter mitt syn noe av det beste om terapi som er gitt ut i bokform i Norge. Den representerer et oppgj?r med evidensbasert terapi, alts? at behandlingen tar utgangspunkt i diagnose og ikke i klientens eget behov. Den viser til bedringsforskning om at kun 15 prosent av behandlingseffekten har ? gj?re med behandlingsmetoden og at kvalitetsforskjell ligger mellom terapeuter, ikke mellom metoder. Forskningen viser at

- ekstraterapeutiske faktorer (klientens egne ressurser, familie og nettverk, tilfeldige hendelser) utgj?r 40 prosent

- relasjonsfaktorer (klientens opplevelse av ? bli forst?tt, respektert og bekreftet) utgj?r 30 prosent

- placebo, h?p og forventning (klientens innstilling til endring gjennom terapi) utgj?r 15 prosent

- modell/teknikkfaktorer utgj?r 15 prosent


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Hey Vikki,

I think for most people who suffer from some kind of mental illness, they usually come to a point of not being able to go any further and they need immediate help. Traditional therapy cannot provide that and if there was some list with registered people who can provide a safe haven just to give a person a room and food without pedagogic advices, it'll be a big improvement. As long as it's an open system.

Yesterday on the Swedish news there was the story of a 700 year old church that had burned to the ground, which they were rebuilding again. The church was burnt by a psychiatric patient who 5 years afterwards killed a 5 year old girl in the streets. He confessed the arson later. These events are twisted cries for help which are nearly always present in the life of a person who suffers from mental disease AND is not being heard or taken seriously.

By the way, the link you mentioned, didn't give a page as of this moment.

Dennis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:42 am 
I can't see murder and serious crimes as cries for help from sick patients. In that case one should excuse all or many parents who abuse their child. I do not. And "psychiatric patients" normally (!) aren't criminals.

The link was ok tonight.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:56 am 
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Maybe I wasn't clear when I said that these events (arson) were cries for help before they move on to murder and such atrocities. I'm sure there were smaller cries for help before the arson as well. These people feel so trapped and helpless, that they finally grab the attention in the most destructive way they can think of. I'm mainly talking about the psychiatric institutions.

Most psychiatric patients are not criminals. But being a criminal can also depend on what the law is (or isn't). Recognizing a cry for help doesn't mean to excuse the abuse that's committed, but a further prevention for escalation.

Dennis

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