Mind Control Experiments

Plenty of stuff to discuss in the world, with the focus on causes
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Dennis
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Mind Control Experiments

Post by Dennis »

To continue from this thread, Colin Ross has done 20 years of investigation on CIA Mind Control.

To quote Ross:

"Published articles in my files include descriptions of
administration of 150 mcg of LSD to children age 5-10 years on
a daily basis for days, weeks, months, and in a few cases even
years. Neurosurgeons at Tulane, Yale, and Harvard did extensive
research on brain electrode implants with intelligence funding,
and combined brain implants with Large numbers of drugs
including hallucinogens."


"Psychiatry in the second half of the twentieth century has
undoubtedly been strongly skewed - not by an agenda that has to
do with academic research, not by the best interest of clients,
not by ethical psychiatry - but by an intelligence agenda..."


"Virtually every leading psychiatrist in North America
between the 1940's and the 1970's was involved in some aspect of
the CIA's mind control research."


And from an article "LEADING PSYCHIATRIST BLOWS WHISTLE ON PROFESSION: PROVES 50+ YEARS OF MIND CONTROL By W.H. Bowart:

At a workshop he held at the 9th Annual Western Clinical
Conference on Trauma and Dissociation in Costa Mesa, California,
last April, Ross offered a preview of the research he's uncovered
for a new book. He said, "When I systematically started looking
into CIA military mind control, the more I looked, the more solid
reality there was there. And as you will see as we go through
these slides, and through this talk, it's a completely different
deal from SRA. Somewhere out there in the justice system, there
may actually be objective evidence where somebody has actually
busted a SRA cult. If there is, that information is not
generally publicly available to us. It is a fact that we have not
nailed down human ritual sacrifice cults in North America if
they exist. So it's all conjecture ... I will prove to you,
completely locked down, documented, proven, beyond dispute or
discussion that intelligence agencies have been creating
Manchurian candidates and MPD for operational use since the
Second World War."


When it comes to memories of UFO abductions, then most of those are not related to secret mind control programs. I suppose you can put it in the same category as where people believe they are a demon. But the memories they have do have a cause, and it might be those surgical operations without anesthesia I talked about earlier, where in therapy a substitute memory symbolizes the deeper pain. As far as the serious accounts on UFO abductions, then those mind control programs do play an important role.

Dennis
Last edited by Dennis on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

(edited only to fix apostrophes)

I have not read the book Ross wrote with Elizabeth Loftus about SRA and false memories nor his book on MK-ultra.

However, in 1994 I met in person the (now late) Philip Klass and read his book UFO Abductions: a Dangerous Game and I think he's right: many abductees are simply lying; they want their 15-minutes fame.

Blaming the CIA makes no good to understand the UFO abduction craze in Chile. Occam's razor applies here.
Last edited by Cesar Tort on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dennis
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Post by Dennis »

People who claim to have been abducted by a UFO, and have been showing the symptoms during several decades (confirmed by witnesses and reports), before the memory of the abduction SLOWLY comes to the surface, don't lie about it just to get attention. Such reasoning comes straight from the poisonous pedagogy. What fame would that be? To be called a nutcase in their local community? Of course it's not about real abductions by aliens and if you read the enormous amount of evidence on CIA mind control, then there were also many programs to keep such mind control hidden from the public.

I suppose every case could have different causes, but blaming the parents where the CIA was involved (or the other way around) is no justice to anyone. Colin Ross believes that 20 percent of his patients (with multiple personality disorder) are government related.

Dennis
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

(edited only to fix apostrophes)

It now looks that I misremembered what Phil Klass wrote and I read 15 years ago. He doesn't say they are liars. Klass rather debunks Bud Hopkins' pretty lunatic research. I believe that Klass' book is pivotal to understand the UFO phenomenon. He who has not read Klass or Robert Sheaffer's UFO Sightings: The Evidence cannot claim to be a UFO scholar.

On the other hand, Colin Ross is no God. He wrote a few stupidities in his book The Trauma Model: for instance, that ADHD might have a genetic cause. I know Ross personally and when I confronted him last month (thru email) with the fact that Silvano Arieti wrote about the problem of the attachment to the perp and the locus of control shift (though Arieti used very different terms) —Ross' pillars to understand trauma— Ross simply wrote back stating he has read very little of Arieti (who published his stuff 50 years ago).

I have met in person Ross' patients. I have talked with them in the Dallas clinic. I have seen how they talk about their parents.

Since people talked about incubus and succubus in the Middle Ages it's pretty obvious (to my mind) that blaming the CIA for folkloric pathologies in the USA is provincial to say the least, and a Hollywoodesque distortion of reality at worst. In my second book I mention Gordon Thomas' book of the CIA psychiatric experiments in Canada: absolutely as horrible as 1984, no doubt about it! But the LSD experiments of other MK-ultra experiments in the USA didn't seem to reach the Orwellian extreme of the experiments perpetrated by Ewen Cameron in Canada: a real monster.

At any event, people have been claiming Encounters of the Third Kind with all sort of spirits for centuries long before the UFO craze started in the 1940s and the founding of the CIA. This shows that we are dealing with a broader sort of psychoses. In my view, caused mainly by parental and social abuses.

It's just that simple.
Last edited by Cesar Tort on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bookish

Post by Bookish »

Rebecca Lemov is a researcher and visiting lecturer at Harvard University who specializes in the History of Human Sciences (faculty info). In an article published by a Canadian newspaper, The McGill mind behind soft torture (a three page article), she wrote:
One of the most extreme 1950s experiments that the CIA sponsored was conducted at a McGill University hospital in Montreal, where the world-renowned psychiatrist Dr. Ewen Cameron had been pioneering a technique he called psychic driving.
I have no idea whether that kind of work relates to UFO abduction stories. I found out about Rebecca Lemov after reading a review of her widely publicized book, World as Laboratory: Experiments with Mice, Mazes, and Men (2005):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0809074648/

There was an earlier book on the subject by John D. Marks, The Search for the Manchurian Candidate, based on documents relased under the Freedom of Information Act:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393307948/
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

(edited once to remove the title "Re: Mind Control Experiments")

Dennis: somewhere you said that you watched CCHR's DVD "Psychiatry: An Industry of Death".

Today's Wikipedia featured article is interesting in the subject of how unreliable CCHR's materials are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Men ... abling_Act

BTW, in my site I published a book in Spanish demonstrating how L.Ron Hubbard, Scientology's founder, was so badly abused as a child that as an adult he became fruit cake: http://www.antipsiquiatria.org/ensayos/La_secta.htm.
Last edited by Cesar Tort on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dennis
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Re: Mind Control Experiments

Post by Dennis »

Cesar,

I'm sure there are unreliable sources CCHR uses. But this has nothing to do with the validity of mind control experiments. These experiments have a wide range of sources, even official governmental sources.

Also it's not a new discovery that L. Ron Hubbard was severally abused as a child and that he caused much harm himself as an adult. But he nor CCHR are the main source of the existence of Mind Control Experiments.

Dennis
Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with[i] in my opinion[/i]...
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

(edited once to remove the obnoxious title "Re: Mind Control Experiments")
Dennis wrote:it's not a new discovery that L. Ron Hubbard was severally abused as a child
I have never seen a whole article, paper or book devoted solely to the fact that Hubbard was abused. Do you have a source in mind?
Last edited by Cesar Tort on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mind Control Experiments

Post by Dennis »

I don't remember which article I've read but I remember that I've read once that he was abused. The Dutch paper I write for has published a lot of anti-Scientology stuff and the Dutch woman Karin Spaink has written loads about Scientology. So I've probably read it there some time. In any case, it's of course a good initiative that you've written as well on Hubbard's abusive childhood.

Dennis
Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with[i] in my opinion[/i]...
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

(edited once to remove the obnoxious title "Re: Mind Control Experiments")

Wow! Spaink is quite a character. I agree with everything she says in the above-linked article.

Suicide for example is a subject in which I wholly disagree with Dan Mackler's essay on taking one's life. Holland is really at the top of the world in this subject (or to use my deMausean vocabulary: a superior psychoclass).

Too bad that we are not as successful as her in editorial matters...
Last edited by Cesar Tort on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mind Control Experiments

Post by Dennis »

Euthanasia is really a dangerous thing in the hands of a government. There's nothing good in supporting one's wish in suicide. As an example, take someone with a severe depression who has suicidal thoughts. These people already have been exposed to incredible cruel methods such as Electric Shock therapy (which still happens). Do you agree that it's done in their own best interest? One step further and assisting a severely depressed person to commit suicide - and that has happened under the euthanasia law - is really siding with the perpetrator and shutting up its victim for good.

Karin Spaink has for a long time been an advocate of the pharmaceutical industry, and is pro drugs, whatever your 'mental' problem is. I've mentioned her in an article I wrote on ADHD, something she never refuted even though my editor said she had read a copy of it.

But I also respect Spaink for her work in other areas, such as free speech on the Internet and Scientology.

Dennis
Everything I write here is my opinion, not absolute truths but I don't want to start every sentence with[i] in my opinion[/i]...
Cesar Tort

Post by Cesar Tort »

Dennis wrote:Euthanasia is really a dangerous thing in the hands of a government. There's nothing good in supporting one's wish in suicide. As an example, take someone with a severe depression who has suicidal thoughts...
My favorite scene in the film Soylent Green is when Sol "goes home":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJTBBoDFH0

I'd love to work in such facility. The experience I have with many, many people is that they cannot only cope, but don't even have the emotional intelligence to do it. I doubt there are a handful of enlightened witnesses in the whole world. (Dan would never tape his therapy sessions so that we may check and see whether or not he's really such a witness!)

Since there are literally millions of people who want to "go home" like Sol, and find it difficult to do it by themselves, State aid in this matter is a must —just like the film.

Not having a Local Euthanasia Center like the one that saved Sol from his misery seems all too cruel to me. I am afraid this is just another topic in which we agree to disagree. However, I agree with everything you said in your rebuttal of Spaink on the ADHD issue.

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