Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:12 am
Dennis,
I had too hard of a time giving a concise answer on status, so I got some help from a friend, and his definition is below. It's so all-encompassing that I find it almost impossible to reel in. I'm getting it more ( especially when given the opportunity to discuss it). It's best to look at the end point of this. Better primal therapy. I wish I knew how that would apply specifically, but I don't. What I DO know is that most certainly both men and women are losing if they don't take status into account. I also want to say that I don't accept your concept of "adapting". What we've done in the "modern" setting "with technology" is so recent and so clearly unsustainable, that genes haven't even registered it yet. Nothing goes unpaid for. It's not punishment, just the way it is. Action-reaction. A primally-suppressed world is going to think like an addict does: "We can control everything because we must."
I'd like to later reply sp?cifically to your comment about rituals-initiation. As you can see, knowing the context of status would be pretty important .....to know what each of us is saying relative to the other. For now it would be enough to say that liberating the pain in the form of a group-witnessed wound is primal therapy. Not cruelty. Some rituals of course were cruel...but they always make "sense".
Note: Identity is strength in the purest form....and hopefully what primal therapy can give us ( feeling...the end of the split). If we are releasing the trapped feminine side ( pain) and not the masculine.....there may be some very large defence networks still in place. Also for women who agree to be in support groups with men and act as if it's "equal" ( in kind) between man and woman. I hope you can start to see the link of status to identity and why it's critical to primal therapy.....and support in primal therapy.
This topic is really worth it in my opinon...although it takes a while to understand what is actually being presented. I needed a hand on status...but I think I understand the identity issue better. It's a real challenge to make the link, but it's a huge boost to therapy if achieved.
My friend read your letter and responded with this....
John
----------------------
Status
Status is tough for me to define.
But Dennis himself hints a bit on the real meaning.
Status, in few words, is your real or perceived position in the social hierarchy. (Which is why I said status is always relative).
Dennis seems to claim that because status used to be determined by "strong muscles", it was the only way a man would obtain high status. It's really a big fallacy, isn't it. Not only because muscles aren't the only (not even the principal) way of obtaining status, but because it means as much now as it did back then.
Status is more a state of mind than anything else. The key word is "perceived social position" (I believe Mystery calls it "social proof").
When two or more individuals meet (let's leave the online thing out, because it's just a detail). the first thing they do is negotiate status. Usually, it's easy given the state of minds of the individuals. However, when two individuals who claim the higher status clash, it can even get violent. (Wars are just that, clashes of status).
People with strong identity tend to get higher status because they don't look for social proof. People with low identity tend to seek aproval, or protection from higher identity individuals.
Identity means looking inward for aproval, instead of outward. This, naturally, means that high-identity indivuals show leadership, because they go to where they want to go, while the rest follow. (Also, mentally ill people can be high-status because they don't seek aproval either... they just do, in their own sick ways).
Women are immensely atracted to high-status individuals, because they usually have more power and resources. They make the best candidates to give their children the highest ability to survive. (Mystery's Survival & Replication model is valid here).
The fact that men are biologically built to be leaders (they instinctively seek higher status, and are more aggresive to pursue it), makes them more "male" and thus more attractive. Which is why identity and status, are considered to be "male" qualities which women love.
Women's strength does not lie in their ability to be leaders or seek high status. Their strength is in their youth and healthiness (protrayed by beauty).
This is why Identity -> Status -> Attraction.
I can't think of any situation where people socialize without some exchange of status. It makes the interaction "fake". Even in theatre or the movies, status is always present. It looks weird or "unnatural" when status is absent. Movies make huge money on low status people becoming high status. ("Run Forest, run"). Comedy is usually about making humour out of high-status individuals, etc. It's fucking everywhere!
Online exchages might give the perception that there is no "status exchanges", but there is... you just have to look closely. (For example... "trying to be right" is a status exchange, "proving you're funny by telling jokes" is a status exchange...).
Technology does not affect status in any way. It only may help those who are powerful with it gain higher status (the geek gets good money, and can attract more females). But it's still status that gets the women. It does nothing to alter the basic laws... it's still there, very much so.
And once status is established, changing status is HARD.
I had too hard of a time giving a concise answer on status, so I got some help from a friend, and his definition is below. It's so all-encompassing that I find it almost impossible to reel in. I'm getting it more ( especially when given the opportunity to discuss it). It's best to look at the end point of this. Better primal therapy. I wish I knew how that would apply specifically, but I don't. What I DO know is that most certainly both men and women are losing if they don't take status into account. I also want to say that I don't accept your concept of "adapting". What we've done in the "modern" setting "with technology" is so recent and so clearly unsustainable, that genes haven't even registered it yet. Nothing goes unpaid for. It's not punishment, just the way it is. Action-reaction. A primally-suppressed world is going to think like an addict does: "We can control everything because we must."
I'd like to later reply sp?cifically to your comment about rituals-initiation. As you can see, knowing the context of status would be pretty important .....to know what each of us is saying relative to the other. For now it would be enough to say that liberating the pain in the form of a group-witnessed wound is primal therapy. Not cruelty. Some rituals of course were cruel...but they always make "sense".
Note: Identity is strength in the purest form....and hopefully what primal therapy can give us ( feeling...the end of the split). If we are releasing the trapped feminine side ( pain) and not the masculine.....there may be some very large defence networks still in place. Also for women who agree to be in support groups with men and act as if it's "equal" ( in kind) between man and woman. I hope you can start to see the link of status to identity and why it's critical to primal therapy.....and support in primal therapy.
This topic is really worth it in my opinon...although it takes a while to understand what is actually being presented. I needed a hand on status...but I think I understand the identity issue better. It's a real challenge to make the link, but it's a huge boost to therapy if achieved.
My friend read your letter and responded with this....
John
----------------------
Status
Status is tough for me to define.
But Dennis himself hints a bit on the real meaning.
Status, in few words, is your real or perceived position in the social hierarchy. (Which is why I said status is always relative).
Dennis seems to claim that because status used to be determined by "strong muscles", it was the only way a man would obtain high status. It's really a big fallacy, isn't it. Not only because muscles aren't the only (not even the principal) way of obtaining status, but because it means as much now as it did back then.
Status is more a state of mind than anything else. The key word is "perceived social position" (I believe Mystery calls it "social proof").
When two or more individuals meet (let's leave the online thing out, because it's just a detail). the first thing they do is negotiate status. Usually, it's easy given the state of minds of the individuals. However, when two individuals who claim the higher status clash, it can even get violent. (Wars are just that, clashes of status).
People with strong identity tend to get higher status because they don't look for social proof. People with low identity tend to seek aproval, or protection from higher identity individuals.
Identity means looking inward for aproval, instead of outward. This, naturally, means that high-identity indivuals show leadership, because they go to where they want to go, while the rest follow. (Also, mentally ill people can be high-status because they don't seek aproval either... they just do, in their own sick ways).
Women are immensely atracted to high-status individuals, because they usually have more power and resources. They make the best candidates to give their children the highest ability to survive. (Mystery's Survival & Replication model is valid here).
The fact that men are biologically built to be leaders (they instinctively seek higher status, and are more aggresive to pursue it), makes them more "male" and thus more attractive. Which is why identity and status, are considered to be "male" qualities which women love.
Women's strength does not lie in their ability to be leaders or seek high status. Their strength is in their youth and healthiness (protrayed by beauty).
This is why Identity -> Status -> Attraction.
I can't think of any situation where people socialize without some exchange of status. It makes the interaction "fake". Even in theatre or the movies, status is always present. It looks weird or "unnatural" when status is absent. Movies make huge money on low status people becoming high status. ("Run Forest, run"). Comedy is usually about making humour out of high-status individuals, etc. It's fucking everywhere!
Online exchages might give the perception that there is no "status exchanges", but there is... you just have to look closely. (For example... "trying to be right" is a status exchange, "proving you're funny by telling jokes" is a status exchange...).
Technology does not affect status in any way. It only may help those who are powerful with it gain higher status (the geek gets good money, and can attract more females). But it's still status that gets the women. It does nothing to alter the basic laws... it's still there, very much so.
And once status is established, changing status is HARD.